SG podcast guest EP
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[00:00:00] Richard Ellis: According to a study by Triton Digital, 83% of senior executives listen to podcasts weekly, and they are more than two times as likely to be power listeners, consuming at least five hours a week. With more and more executives listening, it's not a surprise that senior leaders increasingly look to podcast appearances as a way to build authority and reach new audiences.
[00:00:22] Richard Ellis: Great podcast guests bring clarity, tension, specificity, and humanity. They understand how to move a conversation forward. Instead of reciting talking points today, we explore what executives must do to become the kind of guest producers want back. Welcome to some goodness where we engage seasoned business leaders and experts to share practical guidance to help today's go-to-market leaders, execute, lead, and win in a fast changing world.
[00:00:50] Richard Ellis: Today we're talking about a topic many leaders underestimate, and that is how to be a great podcast Guest. Visibility only matters if the message lands and most [00:01:00] interviews fall flat because the guest misunderstands the medium. My guest today is Chris Warren, award-winning journalist, former editor in chief of the US Edition of Photon Magazine, longtime editor at Los Angeles Magazine, and contributor to outlets ranging from the Los Angeles Times Magazine to institutional investor and National Geographic traveler.
[00:01:21] Richard Ellis: Chris has also hosted podcasts, written screenplays, and shaped enterprise messaging for global brands. He has sat in every seat This medium requires. Chris, thanks for joining me.
[00:01:33] Chris Warren: Yeah, my pleasure. Good to be here.
[00:01:35] Richard Ellis: So Chris, you've obviously interviewed hundreds of people. When you think about your very best podcast guests, what stands out to you?
[00:01:42] Richard Ellis: What did they do differently than others?
[00:01:44] Chris Warren: It's a great question, and I think the thing that really makes podcasts, guests stand out and. Is, you know, something that's just frankly not really a part of our culture so much, and that's just [00:02:00] conversation. Great conversationalists. And so what do I mean by that?
[00:02:04] Chris Warren: Generally people who are really great conversationalists are able to answer questions specifically, but then that's just the beginning of a journey, and it's a journey you take together as a host. And a podcast guest and the journey is you answer a question, but then the, the guests that have really, you know, resonated with me are people who then take that answer and then they layer onto it and they layer, okay, here's, here's what is.
[00:02:45] Chris Warren: The reasoning behind that answer or here are examples that illustrate why I think what I do and they add enormous context. And then, I mean, the [00:03:00] really superstars are the people who then connected to much bigger themes. And that is a, that's a, that's a big skill. So like if you're, if you're able to say.
[00:03:12] Chris Warren: In a, in a authentic, organic way, you know how let's say commodity trading or something connects with Shakespeare or whatever, some sort of larger theme about humanity or about the business world at the moment. In a big picture sense, connecting the, the small with the big is what I have found. To be intriguing because as a host, I'm, I'm looking for answers that can take us to places where people don't normally go.
[00:03:52] Chris Warren: So I, I want to be able to, you know, yes, get answers to specific questions, but then just have that be a [00:04:00] gateway to much more and better follow ups. Deeper understanding, maybe some entertainment. And that's hard. It's hard and it's not something people can learn just, you know, in 20 minute sessions or prep, prep work to before a podcast.
[00:04:17] Chris Warren: But it is, you know, that storytelling ability takes you a long way.
[00:04:22] Richard Ellis: Well, one of the things that you said that I really liked is conversationalist, and then the second thing that. Jumped out to me as connecting the dots to something broader. Yeah. And, and both of those, I think, you know, to your point, you can't, you can't just magically prep, you know, 30 minutes before a podcast and, and do that.
[00:04:41] Richard Ellis: Well, it takes time, you know, certainly if you're speaking about, you know. Something that you're very experienced in or versed in, then you're, you're gonna have a better, a better time of, you know, conversing because you know those that are just q and a, you know, question, answer, question, answer, [00:05:00] uh, those are a bit dry and hard to get through in my experience as well,
[00:05:04] Chris Warren: right.
[00:05:04] Richard Ellis: But, um. What, you know, from your perspective, what are some of those things that you can develop as a skill that you would highlight for, you know, those that you know, wanna be more fluent, more conversationalist, they do wanna be guests and they want to come across well, or any tips on kind of moving in that direction?
[00:05:23] Chris Warren: Yeah, I mean, I, I think it starts with understanding what not to do and what not to do is to go, you know, is to go on and be. Completely self-serving in the sense of having answers that, you know, come across as marketing speak or sales, sales speak, and, you know, avoiding regurgitating the, the sales material that you've developed or the marketing or ads, that's step number one, [00:06:00] and remembering that.
[00:06:02] Chris Warren: You know, being a good conversationalist has multiple parts. It's being able to tell a good story and like we just discussed, but it's also about listening and being open to going where a conversation will lead you, because sometimes it will lead you to surprising places. But if you come into a conversation and you have written down five goals.
[00:06:31] Chris Warren: You wanna get out, these are the things I've gotta get out in this conversation. It it's very limiting. And I've, I've had, I've had guests who literally will write out word for word the answers that they wanna give. And I can tell you, you can imagine it.
[00:06:52] Richard Ellis: Yes.
[00:06:53] Chris Warren: It, it is horrible. It it is, it is someone reading.
[00:06:58] Chris Warren: To you, something [00:07:00] you probably don't wanna hear, right? It's already you're, you're done before you start. So just avoid some basic, basic mistakes and, you know, prepare, try to understand. The, the way to prepare, I think, is to understand, yes, what I have to say has value. How does it have value to my audience?
[00:07:29] Chris Warren: Is it value because it can help them understand an issue or a business challenge in a new, fresh way? Does it, can it just educate them about a new solution? Or, or, or, or, or approach, right. Try to understand what that value is. And be generous about how you, how you convey it, keeping in mind that people tune into a podcast for [00:08:00] the, for their reasons, not yours.
[00:08:02] Chris Warren: Oh, that's good. Remember that, you know, it's your job as a, as a guest. To serve them. And you know, I I, I always keep returning to this idea of service, but I think it's really an important one for people to remember
[00:08:17] Richard Ellis: for sure. Well, and, and let's, let's push into kind of what we want. Uh, so you covered some great, you know, what not to do, but like from a host or a producer's perspective.
[00:08:27] Richard Ellis: You know, I'm, I'm thinking about some of our guests will come on and when we're getting ready, you know, before we hit the record button, they're like, oh, I hope I'm smart enough, or I hope I have, you know. You know, and I, I think just many executives are concerned that their job is to sound smart. Right. Uh, but, but I think as a host or a producer, we want something different.
[00:08:45] Richard Ellis: Right. Something else. And so what are some things that, like you're looking for? Uh, I think that service and yes, everybody has some value to share, right? Yeah. And tapping into that, uh, but some other things come to mind for me, but I, I'm curious about what [00:09:00] comes to mind for you as a producer that you, you know, you hope for when a guest joins the show.
[00:09:04] Chris Warren: Yeah, I, I mean, sounding smart. If your driving impulse is, I've gotta sound smart. You're, you're really, you're, you're setting yourself up for failure because you, first of all, I mean, think about your own personal life and how you react to people who come at you. Wanting to share how smart they are doesn't go particularly well.
[00:09:36] Richard Ellis: That's a great reminder.
[00:09:38] Chris Warren: So
[00:09:38] Richard Ellis: great
[00:09:39] Chris Warren: point. The same thing, the same thing applies in a, in a podcast, you, you have license to share your knowledge. But you have to share it in a way that, again, is relevant to the people you're trying to connect with. So as a producer, your goal is to serve your audience and you know, you know, it [00:10:00] really depends on what the kind of, the, the mission of the podcast is.
[00:10:04] Chris Warren: Is it to entertain, is it to. Provide consistently unexpected insight. You know, every, every podcast will have its own niche. So if you're going on a podcast, understand what their mission is and try to tailor your, your approach to how they're trying to achieve something for their audience. It's really gonna be unique.
[00:10:28] Chris Warren: The way to prepare is to listen to past episodes that have been produced and. Have gotten good engagement and response, because then you're gonna have a flavor of, all right, now I understand what they're trying to accomplish, and here's where I think I can fit in Well, and in the tone that the podcast and the producers are trying to, you know, deliver because they, they're a brand.
[00:10:53] Chris Warren: You might think you're the only brand there, they're the brand and they have to serve their audience [00:11:00] in their own unique way. And figure out how you can help them achieve their objectives. You'll look better by doing that. And they'll have you back on. 'cause you can, you can help.
[00:11:12] Richard Ellis: That others focus, right?
[00:11:14] Richard Ellis: Uh, thinking about the podcast and its mission and its purpose. Thinking about the end audience and what they care about or, or might get value from rather than, you know, it's not about you and looking smart and sharing everything, you know. And, uh, I think that practical tip of, listen back to some guests that you really liked, and what, what was it about them and their approach that, uh, that really stood out?
[00:11:37] Richard Ellis: And you could learn from that.
[00:11:39] Chris Warren: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely.
[00:11:41] Richard Ellis: Really good. Well, um, I, I know one of the things that we'll often struggle with, and I'm, I'm, I'm curious about your perspective is, is drifting and getting off into tangents and things like that in, in some of these interviews, but, uh, you know, any kind of good stories or just guidance on, you know, what to do and things [00:12:00] fall apart, or, you know, we, we can't stay on course.
[00:12:03] Chris Warren: Yeah, well, it happens. Look, I mean, we all, we all have been in situations where we started on an answer, but then we went somewhere else. And you typically know when that's happening as it's happening. And instead of just doubling down and saying, this is where I'm headed. I don't care where we started, I'm ending up there.
[00:12:31] Chris Warren: Stop yourself. Remind yourself of what. And you'll know because the, the host will stop engaging you visually or they won't be giving you those verbal cues. There'll be a eerie silence, and as you're wandering around trying to figure out what your answer is, reset, you can even laugh and say, oh, I don't know how I got going down that tangent, but let me bring this back to, to your question [00:13:00] and then answer it succ succinctly because.
[00:13:04] Chris Warren: That shows some, some humility. It shows some humanity. It shows some awareness about what's going on, that there's a conversation here and sure, I think you get great latitude and people will understand that if you've drifted, bringing yourself back is the best thing you do because you're respecting their time.
[00:13:25] Chris Warren: There, you know, uh, you, you're, you're understanding your role in this conversation and, uh, it, it's, I think it's. There's no foul.
[00:13:36] Richard Ellis: I like
[00:13:36] Chris Warren: that To resetting
[00:13:38] Richard Ellis: well and just keeping the humanity in in it. Right. And, uh, the authenticity and I, I don't know if it's just me, but, but I love when, you know, people are just like, you know, just so down to earth and they recognize that, you know, hey, I've gone off track.
[00:13:54] Richard Ellis: It, it reminds me of just last week, my wife and I went to see one of our favorite comedians, Brian Regan. [00:14:00] He was here in Fort Worth performing and he was clearly testing out some new material. He's really funny all the time. And so he was telling this story and he gets to, he was like, just pause. And he was like.
[00:14:09] Richard Ellis: I don't even remember where I was going with that. And then he just like, and it was so funny, and we just all laughed and it was like, there's no problem with that. Right. Oh no. And I think you could do some of that, you know, in, in, in, in a podcast show. And that's just, you know, there's some humility to it.
[00:14:25] Richard Ellis: Um, and it's some entertainment. It's like, oh good. You mess up. Like I mess up.
[00:14:30] Chris Warren: Right, right. Yeah, I, I've had instances on podcasts and webinars where. You know, we have a producer who says, you know, it's prerecorded, it's not live. And the producer will say, okay, if you find yourself kind of going off on a tangent, you realize you don't want to say, stop.
[00:14:50] Chris Warren: And we'll edit it. And we'll, you know, you can restart and we'll make you look good and everything. And I've had the reaction and it's not always [00:15:00] welcome, but I'll say, don't cut it. You know? Right. Say. Keep it saying, the person saying, stop everybody laughing and rewinding and saying, starting again, because that shows that, hey, you know, I'm human.
[00:15:16] Chris Warren: I'm doing my best. There's, there's people. People will just give you so much sympathy and empathy and they'll probably really listen to what you're gonna say next because they realize that you decided I'm gonna reset. I'm gonna answer this question.
[00:15:33] Richard Ellis: I like that. I like that a lot. And you know, it's probably not too unexpected, you know, just kind of listening to my style here on this show, I tend to be more kind of frank and down to earth and, you know, it is what it is, right?
[00:15:45] Richard Ellis: There's no, at least I hope that's how we come across, but, well, let's relate it to, uh, a little bit of, to business leaders. So we have business leaders, sales leaders, marketing leaders, and not everybody wants to be a podcast. Guest.
[00:15:58] Chris Warren: Yeah.
[00:15:58] Richard Ellis: But I think there's some [00:16:00] goodness. You know, you're in a town hall meeting, you're leading your team, you're leading the company, you're speaking in different, uh, realms that, you know, I think being a good podcast guest, uh, can, you know, some of those principles and best practices can relate to being a good, you know, leader and speaker and, and things of that nature.
[00:16:18] Richard Ellis: What are some, some parallels that you might draw out that, that would be helpful?
[00:16:22] Chris Warren: Yeah, I, it, the big, the big one for me. Is especially in two-way formats where it's an audience and you're getting feedback. It's not a formal presentation. Make sure that you're answering the specific question. That is the greatest frustration for podcast producers, for hosts, but also just as an employee in a company.
[00:16:54] Chris Warren: If someone is asking a leader. A direct question about something. I mean, [00:17:00] maybe there are instances where you can answer it, but if you can answer it, answer it directly, and then supplement it with reasoning facts, stories, because if you start with evasion or a misdirect or something, you're, you're losing a lot of legitimacy and I feel like just.
[00:17:24] Chris Warren: Always being committed to transparency where you can, and honesty is gonna buy you a lot of, a lot, a lot of credibility and confidence. So I, I really feel like that if you can do, have an one takeaway, it's always answer the question. People ask you a question for a reason and Right.
[00:17:47] Richard Ellis: Right.
[00:17:47] Chris Warren: You need to acknowledge that.
[00:17:49] Chris Warren: And if you can't enter it, explain why.
[00:17:51] Richard Ellis: Yeah. I, I think that's so, uh, so important and I, I can, you know, I can remember, you know, I mean, I've been in business many years too, [00:18:00] too many out, but I can remember some, you know, sales kickoffs or some company, you know, town hall meetings where, uh, uh, uh. A question will get glossed over.
[00:18:10] Richard Ellis: Yeah. Or, or they'll just kind of, you know, redirect into something else and you're just kind of, it's not a good feeling. You know, there, there's nothing good about that. But, uh, in contrast, uh, one executive said, you know what? I don't know the answer to that. Uh, so I can't give you a clear answer right now, but I will get back to you.
[00:18:27] Richard Ellis: And, um, and they put out an email two days later with the answer.
[00:18:32] Chris Warren: Yeah.
[00:18:32] Richard Ellis: And that was impressive. So like, not only did they say I, you know, they were honest. I don't know the answer.
[00:18:38] Chris Warren: Yeah.
[00:18:38] Richard Ellis: Uh, then they followed up on their commitment to get the answer and then they shared it with everybody. 'cause it was asked in a public forum.
[00:18:45] Richard Ellis: And so, uh, yeah. You know, you're just like, wow. He, he does what he says. He says what he does. I mean, that's a good
[00:18:51] Chris Warren: Right. And, and it's all, and, and the foundation of it all was storytelling and just communication. You know, [00:19:00] how you communicate. Really, it matters so much to how you're perceived, but also how others will engage with you.
[00:19:10] Chris Warren: And that, you know, goes into culture and all sorts of other things, but just remembering that, you know, there's a foundation and importance and priority to, to how you communicate. Um. In everything that you do.
[00:19:25] Richard Ellis: I like it. That's good. Well, my last question for you is, um, you know, it's, here we are in the middle of December.
[00:19:32] Richard Ellis: SKO season is upon us. We're gonna have all leaders right in front of their teams in various capacities at sales kickoffs, right. And interacting with their teams. And one of the things you shared with me is, you know, part of the magic and, you know, the, just the value of. These podcast episodes is that you're kind of co-creating a narrative between the host and the guest.
[00:19:53] Richard Ellis: Right. And so I look at these opportunities for, you know, a sales leader, marketing leader, channel leader, et cetera, [00:20:00] to interact with the team. Uh, and there's some co-creation opportunity there, rather than just, you know, here's my 30 minute pitch and then I'm off stage. Right. Are, are there any elements of that that you would encourage people to take advantage of that opportunity, uh, coming into this kickoff season?
[00:20:16] Chris Warren: Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, first of all, just having the mentality that you just, uh, expressed is, is essential. 'cause nothing is going to happen if you are heading into one of these meetings and you have your 30 minute, uh, you know, presentation and these are the orders essentially. 'cause that's how people will hear it, is this is the, you know.
[00:20:46] Chris Warren: Here, here's the manifesto and get on board or, or not, or whatever. That's the message it's sending. So leading with openness and the desire to, and and legitimately [00:21:00] desire to hear that feedback, to co-create a narrative that's gonna serve the entire organization is going to result immediately in better outcomes.
[00:21:10] Chris Warren: Because just think, you know, your presentation maybe was. Done by you and you got some help from one other person. Think how limited that is in terms of experience and perspective and understanding of the customer, the story that comes out of that. The narrative that you want to tell as a company is gonna be one guy's view.
[00:21:32] Chris Warren: And sure. You know, not every piece of feedback that you get at that meeting is gonna be relevant and you gotta weed a lot of stuff out. But I'd rather start with a big. Pot of clay than one little one and start molding and make it into something that's much more relevant and usable. So I think what you described is having that kind of open attitude will set you up for success and then really [00:22:00] being, you know, it's gonna be a process, but that process itself.
[00:22:04] Chris Warren: Is valuable because people get more engaged and they feel heard, and they feel listened to and
[00:22:10] Richard Ellis: Right.
[00:22:10] Chris Warren: You know, the ultimate result will be much better.
[00:22:12] Richard Ellis: Well, and and it's not easy, right? No,
[00:22:15] Chris Warren: it's not.
[00:22:16] Richard Ellis: Yeah. It, it, it takes confidence that you can navigate. You know, some unwieldy questions or conversations right in the moment, and so I, I, I certainly appreciate it's a skill that you have to practice and develop over time, but if you can do that to your point, I think it, it leads to some, some goodness and some, you know, extended value that you might not otherwise get.
[00:22:38] Richard Ellis: Well, unfortunately, we're out of time. Uh, it's always a pleasure speaking with you, Chris. Uh, I love it. We could go on and on, but let's wrap up with. Something not related, some goodness that's, uh, that's entered your life, uh, recently and then we'll close it out.
[00:22:53] Chris Warren: Yeah, sure. Um, so, uh, I'm a big reader and okay, so I always have a, a bunch [00:23:00] of books that are, uh, that are in process at some point.
[00:23:03] Chris Warren: And I've just, you know, frankly, I've finished a book that it just stays with me and it was about, um, captain Cook, James Cook, and, uh, it's called The Wide, wide Sea. The thing that strikes me is there was once this world that nobody knew about. There were the people who discovered it and went out and explored it and saw it in new ways and brought back all this knowledge, uh, to, to people who knew nothing about it.
[00:23:32] Chris Warren: And it all must have sound seemed like, you know, aliens from another land. And just that has completely transported me out of this world that we're in right now, uh, to just a really interesting new place, ed. Uh, just that that has given me a lot of. Happiness, just reading about it.
[00:23:51] Richard Ellis: Yeah. Really cool. Really cool.
[00:23:53] Richard Ellis: Well, thank you once again for being here and uh, I look forward to having you back on the show in the near future.
[00:23:59] Chris Warren: [00:24:00] Sounds great. Thanks Richard.
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