SG Podcast - Episode 26
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Richard Ellis: [00:00:00] Organizations that prioritize structured reflection on past successes beyond just formal recognition programs see significant benefits in leadership, effectiveness, innovation, and long-term growth. Today we spend a bit of time reflecting on the success of one year of this show. O.
Richard Ellis: Welcome to some goodness where we engage seasoned business leaders and experts to share practical guidance and tips to help new and future C-level leaders maximize their impact. Well, Heather, June of last year, 2024. Is when we launched our first episode of some goodness. Can you believe it's already been a year?
Richard Ellis: A year?
Heather Easterday: How has that gone by so fast?
Richard Ellis: And I'm not sure if we really kind of shared the origin story, so to speak, of the, the podcast, but maybe we could do that a little bit here and then talk about the, uh, the [00:01:00] special episode we have planned for today.
Heather Easterday: Sounds good. Let's do it.
Richard Ellis: Well, I just remember, you know, you and I having a brainstorm around frequently asked questions and just conversations that were really interesting that we would get into with some of our sponsors across accounts.
Richard Ellis: And one of the things that we recognized was for leaders that were new in their role. Or new in that company, they, they always would kind of ask around, Hey, what am I missing? Or is there some other things I should be thinking about? Or how have you seen other successful leaders approach this challenge?
Richard Ellis: Right. And, uh, we were just kind of saying, how can we better serve our clients, you know, that are curious about these things? But you had the, the brilliant idea of kind of turning that into a podcast.
Heather Easterday: I'm sure for those new leaders, it feels a bit like a black box, doesn't it? Of there's this secret information, there's what good looks [00:02:00] like and how am I going to get access to what that is faster than, than others.
Heather Easterday: And, and I feel like this podcast has been a way to do that, that we're, we're. Providing a glimpse into what have made other leaders successful, and hopefully that fast tracks new leaders and upcoming leaders, uh, to be better. And I, that's, that's really our goal at, at the end of the day.
Richard Ellis: I like that a lot.
Richard Ellis: And, you know, when I just think about myself and learning, you know, um, and there's been a lot of, uh. A, a lot of things written about curiosity and things like that, but I just, I love learning from others, right. And, um, their experiences and what to do, what not to do. And then of course, the, the, uh, the, the comment, Hey, tell me what I don't know, right?
Richard Ellis: What, what am I not thinking about? And, uh, so just this. Has been just a great opportunity for me to learn from other leaders, but also [00:03:00] as, as you put it, uh, share some of that expertise. Uh, maybe highlight some of those blind spots. Uh, provide some of those practical insights and tips for other leaders out there, uh, and be just a, a, an extra resource, uh, for those that are on their journey, uh, in their career to get to that next level
Heather Easterday: well.
Heather Easterday: Let's, let's talk about what we've got coming up in this episode. This is a, a look back, a look at some of those great conversations. You've had such a, a great variety of guests and, and this episode really celebrates that. It's, it's a happy birthday to us and to everyone else. Episode.
Richard Ellis: Absolutely. So, um, there's such goodness in every episode that it's kind of just a little too easy to move on and forget.
Heather Easterday: Well, shall we, shall we kick it off?
Richard Ellis: Let's roll it. I, I've heard you say that avoiding difficult conversations almost always makes the problem worse and, and, you know, at the high level that [00:04:00] kind of makes sense. But tell me more about what you mean by that.
Jack Galloway: One of the things that I always try to do when I'm having a, what I call a difficult conversation is to be curious and curious to me means I'm not.
Jack Galloway: Predetermining, what's going on? I don't know what's going on. All I know is what I observed. It's going to affect my body language. It's going to affect the tone of my voice. It's gonna affect the words that I choose, and I can simply come in and ask questions. I can say, Richard, this is what I've noticed.
Jack Galloway: It feels like you're a little bit off lately. Like you're, you're late on some things. Your numbers aren't what they used to be. You don't seem as, uh, excited to be at work as you normally are, and I just wanted to be as your leader, just stop and go, Hey, is everything okay? Is there something I can help with?
Jack Galloway: Is this just a season we're going through? But I could just open the floor for you to say, well, actually. There is [00:05:00] something going on, and it could be professional, it could be personal, it could be, Hey Jack, I'm not getting along with my new leader that you just moved me to. He's not very prepared. We're not getting along.
Jack Galloway: I don't know what I'm doing, and it's really thrown me off my game. So it could be a lot of different things. And so I really don't feel like it's the right thing for me to do. By accusing or predetermining what this behavior means. It is my job to ask.
Richard Ellis: I like that a lot because I can picture just being on the receiving end, uh, that just says, Hey, you care about me.
Richard Ellis: Just that approach, you care what's going on and what's going on. May have led to, you know, some poor behavior decisions or, you know, different activity or being off my game,
Jack Galloway: but if I'm not clear as a leader, you are never really given the tools. Necessary to adjust your behavior, your performance, your [00:06:00] attitude, whatever it may be.
Jack Galloway: And so I have learned really to err on the side. It's not a 50 50 split of clarity and kindness. It's about a 70% weighted on the clarity side, and it's wrapped in a 30%. Kindness blanket. I can be clear and kind at the same time.
Richard Ellis: I like that. But
Jack Galloway: if I'm kind without the clarity, I haven't done you any favors.
Jack Galloway: I haven't helped myself as a leader to solve this problem. And we're just gonna continue kind of chasing our tail until fi somebody finally just says whatever it is that needed to be said in the first place.
Richard Ellis: Right. Right. Uh, and you may have done some more damage along the way if it takes a roundabout way to get there, but, um.
Richard Ellis: I love that. So clarity is kindness. Uh, and, and so even outside of performance reviews or constructive feedback that you may have to give or, or tough conversations, I, I could [00:07:00] just picture, you know, just the stress from lack of clarity and work streams or, you know, jobs or projects, right? And so lack of clarity is not good in any case.
Richard Ellis: And,
Jack Galloway: and all too often we as leaders. We believe that we have been clear when no one else feels that way.
Richard Ellis: When I think about Larry's leadership style, he tells great stories. And so tell me a little bit about how your storytelling approach works in team presentations or meetings or things like that. How do you use it to convey points or messages or motivate the team?
Larry Sweeney: I think
Richard Ellis: it was
Larry Sweeney: probably trigger from years of sitting in a meeting or sitting in an audience listening to a 20 slide presentation. Just dying and, and, and looking at my phone and texting my buddy saying, when is this going to be over? Right. And when a storyteller gets on stage, I'm hooked, man. Like, [00:08:00] especially if it's a good story.
Larry Sweeney: And I said, you know what, I'm gonna practice doing this. And I started it probably 10 years ago or so, and I was like, you know what? This is more fun. You know, it takes some thought to get the story right. 'cause you need a story that's gonna make your point. Sure. You know, I might catch some flack for this.
Larry Sweeney: Most people that know me well know that I'm a huge fan of the Walt Disney Company. Walt Disney World, right? And some people think my house is full of like Mickey Mouse and mini mouse calls, but it's not. But the Walt Disney Company, Walt Disney World, I mean, they are the premium example of customer experience and storytelling.
Larry Sweeney: Nobody in the world does it any better. The thing about their movies and their stories is they take you on emotional rollercoaster. It's emotionally up, emotionally down, back up again, back on again. And Disney's world renowned for you may not know or remember all of the details, what was in the story, but you remember one thing.
Larry Sweeney: Mm-hmm. How you felt when you walked out of that movie [00:09:00] theater, or how you felt when you were done hearing a story. So when I try to come up with my story to illustrate a point, that's my intention. I want them to feel a certain way. 'cause am I gonna download 20 slides and 10 bullets? That's at 200 data points to an audience of a few hundred reps in an hour.
Larry Sweeney: No. Will they remember two or three things and lead feeling excited and invigorated and motivated? Heck yeah. That's what we're trying to do.
Richard Ellis: That's awesome. Well, and I wanna highlight something you mentioned so that it doesn't get missed, and that is, you said about 10 years ago you decided I'm gonna be a better storyteller.
Richard Ellis: And your intention about learning how to do it and practicing it. I think the misnomer or misconception is all good storytellers are just natural at it, but that's not true. Right? You can become a good storyteller with some practice and intentionality.
Larry Sweeney: You know, the one thing I'll say on that, now that you mention it, is I took a big risk because I had to be super vulnerable and I told a story, a very personal [00:10:00] story, multiple.
Larry Sweeney: Well, the very first one I'll remember was a very personal story about my family and one of my kids, and about how it made me feel. How it made them feel. And it was a difficult story to tell, but it was proving a point. And while I was on stage doing it, I had no idea if it was going to land. But Richard, what I saw was every single person in the audience looking at me, and they were hooked on what was going to happen next happen, and after it was done.
Larry Sweeney: I had a line of people at the stage saying that was one of the most awesome things that I've ever heard in my life. Wow. Like I needed to hear that today. Thank you. And the specific content that I was giving was around an issue, you know, one of the members in my family was having, and somebody else came up to me and said, you know what?
Larry Sweeney: I'm having the same exact issue. Like, how specifically did you fix it? I gave them the steps on how we fixed it and they were like, you may have just [00:11:00] changed my family. Wow. And I'm like, holy moly. Like now I'm up. Now I'm telling stories forever. Wow. Yeah. That is really cool. That's inspirational. That's what I needed to give me the confidence that this is what was gonna work on into the future.
Richard Ellis: Well, and to be able to impact people not only professionally, but personally at the same time how rewarding,
Larry Sweeney: unintended consequence. So cool. Yeah. Yeah. The best.
Richard Ellis: And, and you shared that a lot of times when you join an organization, it's to make a change, right? They're going through a transformation. They need to take things to the next level.
Richard Ellis: So in that context, why is, uh, sales and marketing alignment just so important to get right? I.
Tracey Mustacchio: I think typically what we're trying to do is grow the company overall, and so to do that from the customer standpoint, sales and marketing have to be lockstep aligned, or the customer inevitably gets a bad experience.
Tracey Mustacchio: If marketing's doing one thing, messaging one thing, and sales is doing another, or vice versa, the [00:12:00] result is not good for the customer, and they would typically probably rather deal with a competitor than you. So that's, that's just in general around the customer. But the second thing is, you know, when you talk about.
Tracey Mustacchio: Company revenue. There was a study done a couple years ago by Aberdeen Group and it's really around align teams produce more revenue, 32% more than teams that are not aligned.
Richard Ellis: Yeah, that's a big stat. That's the opportunity, right, that we have in front of us. When I think about change, right? I think about pain and gain.
Richard Ellis: So that's the gain that we have out there in front of us. But the pain is something that we see in revenue enablement all the time, which is marketing teams frustrated because they're creating great. Content and assets for the sales team. Uh, could be positioning, could be conversational messaging, uh, and the sales team's not using it.
Richard Ellis: And then the sales teams over here saying, Hey, you know, marketing's throwing all this [00:13:00] stuff at us. That's not what I need. Right. And so who, when you think about kind of the pain side, what are some things in terms of misalignment that you're seeing as it manifests itself in the sales organization and with marketing and sales teams working together?
Tracey Mustacchio: Well, I think it comes down to well shared goals and shared values. We're, we're all working towards the same, the, the same goal. Getting there in different, getting there in different ways, but working towards the same goal. One of the experiences that I had early on in my career, I was going for a promotion.
Tracey Mustacchio: I was in marketing and I was going for the, the top marketing position, and my boss at the time was the COO and he refused to promote me. And his reason was Tracy. I just don't think the sales folks are going to respect you yet. You're doing a great job in marketing. I. You haven't sat in their shoes and I was pretty young at the time.
Tracey Mustacchio: I probably like 26, 27, [00:14:00] and he's just like, I think to really have the street cred, you need to sit in sales for a while. And so our deal was I would be in sales for at least a quarter. Hopefully two and then get promoted after I proved myself in sales and I was so upset 'cause I didn't wanna do it. I thought it was a little bit ridiculous that he was making me switch roles.
Tracey Mustacchio: But it was the most valuable experience for me as a marketer because I felt firsthand the pain of trying to pull all of the. Things together that are needed to have a successful sales journey. And I did see, honestly that some of the marketing materials like maybe seemed great to marketing, but I wasn't using them.
Tracey Mustacchio: And I don't know, just that that experience of being put in that situation changed the way that I looked at marketing. And I think if everybody in marketing could do [00:15:00] that, it would be awesome. It's not possible usually. Right. So I think the next best thing is to train sales and marketing together.
Richard Ellis: Hmm.
Richard Ellis: You've said before that people underestimate the power of words. This was in a conversation that we've had about messaging, and I'd love to just dig into messaging today if that sounds good to you. And specifically what makes a good message or message Consistency, A differentiator for companies.
Stacy Leidwinger: Yeah.
Stacy Leidwinger: And so my highest belief in anyone that talks to me, messaging is so critical to everything the organization does. And where I see people often fall challenged is trying to come up with the perfect message. Hmm, how are we going to stand out? How are we gonna talk about the value? How are we gonna say we're unique?
Stacy Leidwinger: How are we gonna make sure people really understand everything we do? And one of the things I often say is, you know what? It doesn't matter while words matter. It doesn't matter having the perfect words, it matters. Being consistent. It means that [00:16:00] what is on the website is the same words that sellers are using when they're engaging and SDRs are calling.
Stacy Leidwinger: It's the same words when an executive gets on a phone for an executive call. It's the same words in the RFP. It's the same words from customer success after you've acquired a customer and are retaining them. When an organization all uses the same words. That's when you get power of brand, power of message, and it's less about finding the perfect word.
Stacy Leidwinger: It's all about being consistent in your delivery of that. And yes, it will evolve over time. I. I think sometimes people seek out for the perfect message. And I say it's really about consistency that drives success for a whole organization.
Richard Ellis: That's interesting. 'cause you're right, I think there is this desire, it's gotta be perfect and it's gotta be the right sentence.
Richard Ellis: And we're not really writing scripts 'cause nobody in sales is gonna memorize a script and say the same words every time in all conversations. But it's the gist of that message, and it's probably some phrases that we [00:17:00] want to get right and be consistent in the usage. The message has to be good, right? It may not need to be perfect.
Stacy Leidwinger: The two fundamentals to make sure that you're getting the right message is first, the words come from somebody else that's not you. And second, you're testing it along the way. Now that other piece is what makes a good message, and this is something, you know, we've actually worked in together quite a bit on over the years, but it's the, you fundamentally need to know who you are as an organization.
Stacy Leidwinger: So everyone needs to consistently say, this is who we are. You need to know what you do. What are you delivering? How do you do it? What customer benefit are you providing? How are you unique? And then how do you deliver it? Why should I get all of this from you over somebody else? And I think if you start breaking down those questions, you get those sound bites.
Stacy Leidwinger: You might not deliver them all in your two minutes pitch or every pitch you do, or every white paper, but you're gonna deliver the right elements at the right time, and it's simple enough that everyone in the organization can start getting behind.
Richard Ellis: I think that's important [00:18:00] for us to recognize that mentoring doesn't mean do it all yourself.
Richard Ellis: Right, but it's equipping those around you to be able to get things done and ultimately creating scale for yourself as a leader. And you've led some small teams, some big teams, right. Tell me a little bit about leading different kinds of teams and maybe some, you know, differences or observations you've had with just the culture or maybe the tenure of the teams, et cetera.
Chris Strammiello: Sure. Well, just speaking for a moment about people around you. You know, it's important to mentor your team or your key leaders or have a tailored approach for different team members. I think it's also though, important that you've gotta create a tribe of mentors for your team, and that's one of the ways, Richard, that.
Chris Strammiello: You and I came to work together originally, which is I've got a certain set of coaching points I wanna deliver to my team, but I understand the value of outside experts like yourself, [00:19:00] give them a different coaching perspective or from a different perge, and then also getting them connected with. Other execs inside the company to give them some mentorship in different areas.
Chris Strammiello: So I think one of the big items that is important to emphasize is as a sales leader, it's not just about your mentoring or your coaching of your team, it's kind of the tribe of mentoring and support system that you can put around. And there's a lot of different perspectives and ways to benefit. Just transitioning.
Chris Strammiello: You asked a question about different types of teams, and it's true. You know, I started working in product businesses and then spent a long time in software businesses. Now service businesses and I worked with large teams, maybe 250 sellers and smaller teams, you know, 10, 12, 40, 50. And I think one of the keys is stratifying the type of team, type of sellers, type of [00:20:00] managers you're working with.
Chris Strammiello: So I, I had some software teams that were deeply expert, seasoned, enterprise selling professionals. And so with those folks. I've gotta put them in position to win. My primary job is to let them shine, bulldoze any obstacles that are in their way, get them the support and the enablement they need and put them in position to win.
Chris Strammiello: But I've also still gotta do some behavioral change, some coaching, some mentoring. And so to do that, I've gotta build up enough trust with them from the onset. That they know I have one thing in mind, which is a great outcome through them. And I think if I can do that, then the little bit of change, you know, the degrees of change become a lot easier.
Richard Ellis: Right.
Chris Strammiello: With a smaller team or more earlier in their career type team and, and that's the type of team I have now. Like that's very invigorating. That's probably what I love most because they're so [00:21:00] receptive to the coaching, and I think you've seen that with us working together. It's a wonderful feeling for someone to be so open and then to see the positive benefits of the change.
Chris Strammiello: Yes, but you've still gotta focus on building that trust right from the onset. I think it's most satisfying, at least to me, everybody's different, but most satisfying to put some of that coaching in place, give people a tribe of mentors around them, and then watch the satisfaction that they receive. With the really incredible quick rate of progress and that the organization receives from that too.
Chris Strammiello: I know you're a fitness guy, so you know, like if you're lifting weights, those first years of changing a program, you know, you make these incredible gains. And then it's more about the incrementality of the gains.
Richard Ellis: Yeah. We call those newbie gains, but you can make a lot of progress with not a lot of work or effort or even consistency in, in [00:22:00] terms of high growth versus legacy, or there's some dynamics and commonalities that we want to say, Hey, we've learned a lot.
Richard Ellis: Right. Uh, let's, let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. But these businesses have been successful over time, and so albeit maybe they're, they're slower and they have some of that history that doesn't apply. Have you found some goodness that does apply that we need to bring forward into a growth
Mike Fouts: business?
Mike Fouts: I'll give you three things. Number one is, uh, embrace, right when, when you move into this model. Don't fight every current, right? Embrace. And especially if you're someone like me who has come out of a more traditional, and now you're going into a growth business, uh, you can't fight everything, right? It's not, it's not worth it.
Mike Fouts: So, so embrace those things. Prioritize and prioritize what matters. Hmm. Things are gonna move really fast. The pace is gonna change dramatically. Uh, you're gonna be outta your comfort zone. Prioritize what matters. Right. I like that. And then the third one is I, I've said [00:23:00] it a couple of times and it's some very fundamental advice that a former boss and mentor gave me, which is.
Mike Fouts: Accept a few things, right? You can't change everything.
Larry Sweeney: Mm.
Mike Fouts: So prioritize what matters, and then just accept the rest and put it on your list and address it as time and the business evolve and permit, and that's been a really good guideline for me to live by, especially as I move from a legacy company into a growth company.
Mike Fouts: I
Richard Ellis: like that a lot. Those are three very good practical tips, both inside of business and out. Even if as we think about our families and our relationships Yes, and our friendships. That's awesome. I. Well, I do have one other question that comes to mind before we wrap up our topic today. I know, uh, of a couple of leaders specifically that are looking at, at making their next career move.
Richard Ellis: And certainly one choice would be go to a smaller, high growth startup type of company. Others might be joining a [00:24:00] larger legacy company and, and then a third would be a high growth company within a, a larger legacy company or a conglomerate, et cetera. Any of your learnings come to mind in terms of just being able to offer some advice to those that are trying to make some of these hard decisions on their career move?
Mike Fouts: Yeah, I will. There, there's really two things. The, the first one is know who you are. Mm. Know who you are, right? Have self-awareness to your strengths and your weaknesses. I have seen over the years bidirectionally, right? I've seen folks who, their profile is more a smaller. Agile fast company and they come into a larger company that's more stoic, more process driven, higher scale, and it just doesn't work.
Mike Fouts: So, so know who you are, and by the way, the reverse is true. I've seen growth companies make the mistake of. Going too early and getting someone from a larger company to instill some process. And if the timing's [00:25:00] not right, that's a disaster. So right. Know who you are is number one. Number two is be honest about what you want.
Mike Fouts: Right? Oh, I like that. It's okay, right? If, if you want to live in a fast-paced environment. Great live there, right? Our time on this marble is pretty short, so don't be miserable in, in that time, right? Know what you want. If you like the structure, if you like being a little bit more deliberate, if you like a little bit more process around things, that's gonna lead you in a certain direction, but I, I think it's important to know who you are and know what you want out of your life and your career.
Richard Ellis: We do have some great new speakers lined up for the coming year, so I just want to tease that so everybody stay tuned for more goodness to come.
Heather Easterday: Yeah. And let's admit you've been in an enviable role this past year. You have gotten to talk to the coolest people, have you not?
Richard Ellis: It's been a lot of fun for sure.[00:26:00]
Heather Easterday: Some goodness is a creation of revenue innovation. Visit us at revenue innovations com and subscribe to our newsletter.
