SG EP 33
===
Richard Ellis: [00:00:00] Most professionals want to advance their careers, but few have a clear plan for how to do it. Research by Gallup found that only 33% of employees feel engaged in their work, and many people find themselves stuck in the same role for years without real progress. But what if you could take control of your own career growth intentionally building the skills, mindset, and opportunities to move up?
Richard Ellis: Welcome to some goodness where we engage seasoned business leaders and experts to share practical guidance and tips to help new and future C-level leaders maximize their impact. My guest today is David Wolf, a recruiting expert who has spent more than 24 years helping professionals land top sales leadership roles as an executive recruiter at Hunters Soft.
Richard Ellis: He's worked with high performing professionals across industries, helping them secure their next big opportunity. David has studied career progression deeply and has developed a seven step framework to help people create unstoppable momentum in their careers. Today we're breaking down some of these [00:01:00] steps, not just as ideas, but as real, tangible actions that you can take to accelerate your career starting now.
Richard Ellis: David, welcome to the show. Thank you, Richard. So, um, we've talked about a, a few different topics that we could cover today and I just liked that, uh. That you've got kind of some specific steps or elements for really any professional or any leader accelerating their career. I, I thought it would be great.
Richard Ellis: If you don't mind, if we could kind of dig into a handful of those, uh, in our time today. I'd love to. So, uh, so you were sharing with me, you've got, you know, you, you think about vision and desire and beliefs and acceptance and intention and action and, and, and just some really good, uh, elements to be more, uh, intentional.
Richard Ellis: That's one of yours. Uh, one of my favorite words. Uh, be more intentional about, you know, kind of guiding your career growth. Right? And so, um, a big part of our, uh, listenership out there is, uh, current leaders that want to accelerate their career [00:02:00] growth. Uh, whether they're at a director level or they wanna be.
Richard Ellis: VP next, and they have aspirations to be that CRO, right? Uh, a lot of people are, uh, just looking and, uh, hungry for tips on, you know, what can I take away from some of these podcasts in terms of really accelerating, you know, my, my career growth. And so, uh, let's, let's dig into a handful of these. 'cause I think you've got just some, some great ideas.
Richard Ellis: Uh, and I wanna start with vision because a lot of times we'll think about vision in terms of, um. The company, right. What's the company's vision? But what, when you think about vision, uh, you're thinking about, you know, one's personal vision of their career. Is that right? Tell me a little bit. Right?
David Wolf: Absolutely. So everybody has dreams and aspirations, but the problem is you don't always back it up with thoughts and feelings because it's easy to be hijacked by the news. By social media, by a bad moment or not so good moment in the, in the work life or the family life. [00:03:00] And you've gotta take care of yourself first.
David Wolf: Everything that you do is gonna have that as an end in mind. 'cause once you have that inside and you own it. It will happen. So how do you make it happen? By being the best version of yourself every day. And there's good versions and bad versions. There's the David A and the David b. I like to have the David A on board most of the time, but David B sneaks in there once in a while and whispers a mayor, can you do this?
David Wolf: Can you accomplish this? Start out. Following people that you admire. You know, if it's the Larry Ellison from Oracle or you know, whomever follow them. If you're not, follow these guys. You know, they're leaders, they've been there. They, they, they climb that mountain. Those are the guys I want to pay attention to.
David Wolf: We have friends that from Citrix and that I follow them. I, I watch their feeds and when I see them follow some. I go, Hmm, I'm gonna follow that person 'cause he looks smart. I can learn something from him. And I like the vibe that I get from following really quality leaders. It, it trickles down into me.
Richard Ellis: So one of the things that you were sharing with me, David, is that, [00:04:00] uh, vision, uh, in terms of the vision you have for your career and what you want to achieve.
Richard Ellis: Short term and long term is really important. And we always, I always think about vision for a company, right? Uh, or maybe a project or a program. Uh, but tell me a little bit about, um, you know, why is it important for a person, right? A leader, to really think through what is their vision for their career?
David Wolf: Well, the vision for your career includes your whole lifespan. Include your family. Why do we want things? And not just in a selfish reason. I wanna take care of my family, my wife, my children, my neighbors. I wanna, I wanna be charitable and all those kinds of things, but I also wanna recoup for the best companies in the world.
David Wolf: You know, I have an ego, and by the way, we should feed our egos because they're very nice things to have. They keep us going.
Richard Ellis: Sure, sure. I'm recruiting
David Wolf: for a client now who said we'd like to get a million customers. I have my mind, I see tens of millions. I see [00:05:00] the bigger picture. I mean, why not think big?
David Wolf: All of your great leaders have gone through that process and they, in fact, they, they own the vision from childhood. You know, it's easy to find athletes, you know, like the guy who ran the Roger Banister, the four minute mile. It was considered medically impossible for a human body to travel four minutes in a mile.
David Wolf: In fact, the doctor said you would have a heart attack. Well, the minute he did it within 43 days, 35 other people ran less than a four minute mile, right? It just broke through that vision block. So your vision can be 10 times a hundred times better than what you think is because we hold ourselves back oftentimes.
Richard Ellis: I like that. Well, and um, if you think about the vision for your career, that gives you kind of that north star Yes. That you're aiming for, and then you can kind of build a plan or a roadmap towards it. Right. And then, you know, you can kind of see, okay, am I on this path or not? Towards that vision? It reminds me, [00:06:00] I was just last week having a conversation with a, uh, uh, a sales leader, uh, a sales manager, first line sales manager, and he was frustrated with, um.
Richard Ellis: With his environment. And the reason he reached out to me, he was like, Hey, do you know any of your clients that are hiring? I kind of, uh, I'm thinking about making a transition. And, um, we kind of dug into it and, and he had spent more time thinking about what he didn't like about the role, uh, or the company and not enough time thinking about what is his aspiration or vision.
Richard Ellis: Longer term, and, and let's look at what that next move is for him to make sure it's, it's a stepping stone towards that vision. So I, I just think it's a great way to kind of think about as you think about your career, you know, start with what is your vision? And then the next thing you shared with me was desire, right?
Richard Ellis: Uh, so you have to have a vision, but you also have to have the desire or the motivation to grow. So tell me a little bit about. You know how people, you know, kind of how, how you [00:07:00] think about leveraging desire to, to get what you want.
David Wolf: Well, you have to leverage desire by remaining reminding that this is a conscious decision to pursue a desire.
David Wolf: So when you say, I'd like to have the second home, I'd like to be the CRO, I'd like to be running the company. I'd like to this, have this executive role that's something that's already inside of you and it, it's waiting for you to acknowledge it. The problem is. Most people look at the problem. Nobody has to think like I do.
David Wolf: I'm on my journey and here's my vision, and I know that I have to put blinders on to negative thoughts, negative input. You're not good enough. All those little things that whisper in people's ears. That's good.
Richard Ellis: That's good. And so vision and desire, I think, go hand in hand. Um, one of the other key elements, uh, for really navigating or accelerating, uh, your career growth that you mentioned was acceptance.
Richard Ellis: And I'm a big believer in really just kind of, um. You know, being self-aware and, and, and just have and some [00:08:00] awareness of, hey, we're, we're not all perfect. Right. Um, and you know, certainly I've got what I think are my strengths, but I've got some, uh, some weaknesses as well. So tell me a little bit about how acceptance kind of fits into your model of, uh, really navigating a great career.
David Wolf: Well, acceptance is accepting who I am and I think very highly of myself. I didn't before, but I've learned that if I don't do it, nobody else is gonna do it for me. And put yourself in a good mood. When you're in a good mood, bad things don't look so bad. When you're in a good mood, when a deal goes off, you go, I'm gonna find five more of those, you know?
David Wolf: And, and your attitude and your emotions and your desire are all pointing in the same direction.
Richard Ellis: Mm-hmm.
David Wolf: And then you get what you want. Because you're unstoppable. You are actually unstoppable When you have
Richard Ellis: that attitude. That's great. Yeah. Thinking through, you know, your strengths, your abilities, um, but also being realistic and accepting, you know, who you are.
Richard Ellis: One, one of the things that [00:09:00] um, that, that also kind of comes to mind is also accepting, you know, where we are in terms of our current. Career progression, uh, and just understanding that, you know, maybe we're not at a place where we need to be yet or where we desire to be, or that's, you know, towards our vision.
Richard Ellis: And, uh, unless you kind of accept that and acknowledge that, you can't really kind of build a plan to, to, to change that. Right. And so, um, acceptance also I think, uh, really can guide us in terms of how we, you know, move on that trajectory towards our vision. Would you agree with that?
David Wolf: Yes, I, I have a, a different take a little bit that I, I don't allow myself any kind of recrimination.
David Wolf: Uh, I gave up guilt. Yeah, I gave up looking backwards. That's why we have eyes in the front of our head and instead of back, I can, I can revisit past mistakes and go, you know what? There was actually a doorway sitting right there, and I didn't know it. I thought it was a locked door, and it was an open door.
David Wolf: Now I know [00:10:00] that that obstacles are actually doors and pathways to success.
Richard Ellis: Count
David Wolf: them. They're your blessings. They make you better, they make you tougher. They give you more gr, more resilience. And the history is full of people that just went through the firing line and, and were not injured because they knew they, they knew they had a goal and they knew that nothing's going to stop
Richard Ellis: me.
Richard Ellis: Just, just kind of thinking about, you know, you've got a really optimistic. Uh, way about you. Right. Uh, and I think that could pay huge dividends. And I, I like the idea of, hey, you know, shed the guilt. Right. Let you know the past is, is the past Absolutely.
David Wolf: Guilt's a false feeling.
Richard Ellis: Yeah. Yeah. You know, I don't look
David Wolf: back and go, wow, you were really an idiot that day.
David Wolf: But now I, now I stopped that and I feel better when I don't, you know, hurt myself by thinking backwards. I go forwards. I was thinking this one thing about George Washington. I know I hate to do this, go back, but George Washington lost every [00:11:00] battle just about getting America free, especially before the actual war was declared.
David Wolf: And he was the French and Indian War. He had six horses shot out from underneath him, untouched by bullets. He would take off his jacket and there's bullet holes in the jacket that he was wearing that day in combat. He knew he had a mission. And then his knowledge of that mission kept him alive through the toughest of times, which of course, he was the founder of our country.
David Wolf: So we we're kind of progressing from,
Richard Ellis: you know, we're, we're thinking about, okay, I've got a vision for my career, right? I've got a, a, a real strong desire to, uh, to achieve that vision. I'm accepting kind of who I am and where I fit and how I can make that happen. Uh, the next couple of things you shared with me that, uh, that you really take to heart are intention and action, and I think those kind of, you know, they go hand in hand.
Richard Ellis: You're not, you're not waiting, right? Right. You're not ad hoc, but you're intentional about, uh, certain things. You're taking action [00:12:00] to move forward. So tell me a little bit about what comes to mind when you think about either intention or action.
David Wolf: Well, intention means I'm putting my attention towards my clients.
Richard Ellis: Okay.
David Wolf: I am a, I am, when I have an assignment from a client, I own it. I think of them when I start the day off, I think of the CEO or the VP of sales, whoever I'm recruiting for, and I'm thinking of his vision and what it's gonna take to get there. 'cause I know if I can see his vision, I can own it. And it makes my effort a game instead of work.
David Wolf: Mm. It's no grind. Because I love what I do and I love what my clients are doing, and I have a real, uh, uh, connection to them. Yeah. And that makes life wonderful. And action, of course is, you know, dialing, dialing up and calling people. Right. You know, don't be afraid to, you know, I don't, I don't send out that many emails.
David Wolf: I communicate over LinkedIn, but I like to call people and talk to 'em and make presentations. Mm-hmm. I don't hide behind emails or text or stuff like that as much as I possibly can.
Richard Ellis: [00:13:00] And so, um, you know, relating that to your career growth, then if you, if you're intentional about, uh, this path that you're on, uh, then to, to your point, you can get passionate about that and you can know that e even some of the grunt work and the grind.
Richard Ellis: It may otherwise be, you know, uh, something that feels like a grind, it can now be almost rewarding. 'cause you know that it's leading you towards where you wanna be. Right. It, it's part of that journey. Uh, and then you can get, you know, empowered by putting the discipline and the activity and the action behind it.
David Wolf: Absolutely. So I don't, I, I use the word grind myself, but I've, I'm trying to hone that away. Yeah. Because I love what I do.
Richard Ellis: Yeah.
David Wolf: I love my work. So it's a, again, it's a game. I know how the chess pieces work. I know what I have to do. I know that my intentions are great and, and I always win. Right? I always win.
David Wolf: Right. I think once in the last five years, I had a candidate, didn't work out, but the rest of 'em always work out because we put all this, their intention, my intention, [00:14:00] make sure that, and I also make sure the candidates got the same vibe, the same approach, the same skill sets that we're looking for and all those other things we talked about in other sessions.
Richard Ellis: Right, right. Because they had
David Wolf: too.
Richard Ellis: Yeah,
David Wolf: exactly.
Richard Ellis: Well, it, it's fun to kind of think about these things because, you know, a as you know, we do a lot of work with sales teams and, and leadership teams, and so I can start picturing now some different conversations. And so, uh, just kind of talking about kind of grind can have a, a negative connotation.
Richard Ellis: I was, uh, just thinking in my head some conversations I've had recently with, uh, a couple of different. Sales managers. Right. One of them kind of had the perspective of, hey, you know, just so you know, I'm probably only gonna be in this role a couple of years. Right. Uh, it's a necessary step I gotta kind of put in my time.
Richard Ellis: Right. And just had kind of a downer feel about it. Yeah. It's a necessary evil, you know, on his career path, right? [00:15:00] Uh, but then I think about this other conversation and, uh, this other leader, same kind of situation, different company, but um, his attitude and the way he talked about it was. I'm gonna learn everything I can about this role and about how to do this well, and about how other peers are doing it.
Richard Ellis: Uh, and I'm gonna, you know, work with the, the leadership team to understand, you know, what makes success in, in that role. And it was just a different positive vibe, right? So where the first one was, oh, I've gotta go through this grind, right? This, this necessary step to get where I was. The other was, this is an opportunity for me to, you know, really learn.
Richard Ellis: And optimize. And, and grow, right? And so I, I like your guidance of, hey, be careful about, you know, the negative, be careful about, you know, the word grind and things like that.
David Wolf: And there's a lot of people, there's a lot of people that are negative. I interviewed A CFO just two days ago, and for five minutes he complained about why he [00:16:00] couldn't get a job.
David Wolf: And I said, well, I think I have, I think I found the reason because you just told me for five minutes why you can't have the next job. Wow. And, and that really sits in the back of a lot of people's minds that I've been pretty good at making sure that when I see that negative energy, I leave the room, I go find another client.
David Wolf: You know, and then I try to help people. But some people, plenty people are just born into it. Yeah.
Richard Ellis: And they can't shake it. So. Good. Well, one last thing and then, and then we'll wrap up. And, uh, you had mentioned the word allowance and, uh, you know, not the allowance that I've had to give my kid for the last, for the last 20 years.
Richard Ellis: But, uh, letting go of some of that anxiety, some of that guilt like you were talking about earlier. Uh, but what, what does allowance mean to you in terms of your career and your convert career progression?
David Wolf: Well, allowance means that I don't have to mentally control everything, but I have to emotionally control myself.
David Wolf: I have to work on David Wolf. As much as I work on working for my clients, I have to be a [00:17:00] better version of me. And with that in mind, I listen to things. I read books, I read philosophy. I really, I, I, I tap into, you know, the whole me and to make sure that that's the best version of me is getting better every day.
David Wolf: And when I'm doing that, then everything else seems to come together.
Richard Ellis: I like that we want to control the controllables, right? But not everything is controllable, but we, you know, in those situations we can control how we react, um, and, and our responses to. What happens and, uh, you know, let go of some of the anxiety or let go of some of the frustration of some of those things that, you know, we can't have a direct hand in.
Richard Ellis: Uh, well, the
David Wolf: marketplace response to our attitudes.
Richard Ellis: Hmm.
David Wolf: Yeah. You might meet somebody in the airport going to a meeting that says, you know. I like that Richard Guy, I think, I think he's got something there. I'm, I'm gonna give him a ring. He gave me his card and you know that those chants meetings, there's no such thing as luck.
David Wolf: Just realize that you, this, the intention that you have attracts to you what you want.
Richard Ellis: [00:18:00] Yeah. Yeah. I like it. Well, thank you David. I do wanna wrap. Up with some extra goodness. Uh, outside of what we talked about today. Uh, you've shared with me in the past that, uh, you, you've, you've done, uh, a lot of pickleball playing, and so that's awesome.
Richard Ellis: But, uh, what else, uh, is bringing a little bit of goodness into your life these days, uh, new grandchildren?
David Wolf: Ooh, that's, that's goodness. Always goodness. And good chance to do it again. I love being a father, and now I love being a grandfather, even though they're two years old, so it's really pretty easy to love them.
David Wolf: Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. And, uh, you know, I love my wife and my family and I, and I, I have lots of friends and I have lots of clients that I have relationships with over the years in our technology industry. And I love our industry. I love the people, I love the, the integrity of our industry, and I love what we're doing.
David Wolf: We're making the world a better place.
Richard Ellis: Yeah. That's good stuff. Well, thanks again, Dave for, uh, spending a few ti a few minutes with us today and, uh, uh. Appreciate it and, uh, we'll talk again soon. I'm sure. Thank [00:19:00] you.
Announcer: Some Goodness is a creation of revenue innovations. Visit [email protected] and subscribe to our newsletter.
